Zygor Guides Review Scam Dugi $150,000 Lawsuit

TourGuide has been back online for 4 days which was about the same time we released our new addon, and yet after all the controversy we didn’t hear any official announcement from Zygor or Tekkub, it is as if the issue is being “swept under the rug” so we can all forget it ever happened.

After 3 weeks of on going lawyer discussions I now feel comfortable to disclose the information below.

UltimateWoWGuide.com wish to take a stand that we were within our rights to distribute TourGuide until 18th Feb 2010, any other public statements stating otherwise is false and defamatory against our business for the following reasons.

1. On 7th January 2009 Tekkub gave me permission in writing to specifically sell TourGuide with my guides commercially (I chose those words for a purpose) with the only condition to not sell TourGuide ‘alone’. refer to this screenshot of Tekkub’s permission in writing,

This proves that we are within our rights to distribute TourGuide for commercial use and this also proves that Tekkub’s statements on his website and statement made by Zygor that I never had Tekkub permission to sell, or distribute the TourGuide addon is clearly false and there is an alterior motive as to why they would say that.

2. We also note that Tekkub had published the source code of TourGuide on http://www.github.com. One of the terms and conditions of opening an account with GitHub.com is that by setting the user’s repositories to be viewed publicly, the user agrees to allow others to use that user’s repositories to take a copy of source codes from software programs and develop it independently of that software (‘forking’). A copy of the terms and conditions for GitHub.com can be found at http://help.github.com/terms/.

Tekkub claimed that by “setting a repo to be viewed publicly is like packaging an addon in plaintext files… anyone can view it because there is no mechanism available to prevent them from doing so.”

However this statement is incorrect GitHub.com does have an option to set your repositories as private which is recommended by GitHub if you software proprietary. It is also clearly stated on GitHub and if you chose your repositories to be viewed by anyone (refer to screenshot below), you also declare that is an open source project (see section 1.) And the term forking is commonly known to the programming community here.

I forked Tekkub’s TourGuide repo from github to my own github account in January 2009.  If “forking” wasn’t allowed and if TourGuide is not “open source”, the wrong message is clearly sent to the public by hosting it on as a public repositories without any form of license. There are options in GitHub to protect your software to which Tekkub chose not to use.

3. On 3 April 2009 Tekkub was upset regarding the “forking” of TourGuide, I took action with removal of the public link and clearly stated I was still distributing it in my members area. I offered a solution such as licensing, and modification of TourGuide, these options were a possibility and I was under the understanding that these options were being considered.

We complied by removing the link and suggesting a solution and we were still within our rights to continue distributing as we still have permission, if our final email was unacceptable to Tekkub, then he should clearly state it. Which he didn’t and he admitted “chose not to pursue it“.

4. On 12 December 2009 Tekkub continued to take our donations, and also help us further in modifying by providing a code for TourGuide for our distribution in Dec 09.

This proves that there was no problem with us modifying and distributing the guide.

5. Tekkub also encouraged the renaming of TourGuide “In short, you f*ck with it, find a new name for it.” which was the issue that he had with us.

This further proves that Tekkub is not opposed to people modifying and distributing TourGuide.

6. Even after Zygor’s acquisition of TourGuide, Tekkub is not opposed to wow-pro distributing TourGuide but completely against to what we have done when it is the same thing.  Arguments that this is because wow-pro is not a commercial or non profit website is invalid, the large amount of free traffic that wow-pro received is helped by distributing tourguide which adds to their profit of banner advertising.

Again this further proves Tekkub is not opposed to people modifying and distributing TourGuide for commercial use.

Final comment on Tekkub

Our donation to Tekkub was only $500 and I admit it was far from enough, but the fact remains that it was a donation, something we didn’t have to give and our donation made up almost 50% of money that Tekkub received for the development of TourGuide as a public addon. We were ready to take it to the next level with licensing long before Zygor however Tekkub showed no interest.

On January 2010 I even contacted Tekkub to offer him a monthly sponsorship program to continue his development for TourGuide as a free addon for everyone to use. Tekkub never responded because obviously it was too late as he already sold it to Zygor.

As far as I know we were Tekkub’s #1 supporter, over the year we have also contributed to TourGuide by suggesting features and submitting bugs. I don’t think it was fair for me and others who have donated and contributed in anyway for the public project of TourGuide only to be shut out completely and then accused of copyright infringement in public.

I don’t know why Tekkub would state incorrect statements against us, I  did contact Tekkub to try to get more closure,  however he simply states he does not have the liberty to comment. I have also forwarded him this statement for him to correct or comment before posting publicly on this blog,  he didn’t reply.

Zygor Intention To File a $150,000 Lawsuit Against UltimateWoWGuide

1. On 18th Feb 2010, after Tekkub’s confirmation of Zygor’s acquisition of TourGuide on his website tekkub.net, we promptly stopped selling our leveling guide and complied with Zygor’s demands, as this was the only proof that we found that Zygor have acquired the rights to TourGuide.

2. On 22nd Feb 2010, I received a follow up letter from a Lawyer representing Zygor Guides LLC of their intention to file a lawsuit for $150,000 per infringed work and attorney’s fees.

To summarize, they state that.

  • I have infringed their copyright of TourGuide for the period of 12 Dec 2009 to 2 Feb 2010 (Period of just over 2 months)
  • I must pay $75,000 by 31 March 2010, and Zygor guides will agree not to bring the lawsuit against me.
  • I must agree to forever cease the use of TourGuide in anyway.

3. On 24th Feb 2010, Zygor filed DMCA claim against all of our YouTube videos. Videos that we created ourselves 100%, even the free how to do dailies videos that we put out, refer to picture below. The alleged infringing material consist of  an Blizzard’s icon image and quest name to which probably made up less than 1% of the total image.

4. On 5th Mar 2010 I responded with a letter from my lawyer stating that

  • We received the infringement notice prematurely and have already ceased distribution despite having permission from the original author.
  • We notified them that we will not pay $75,000 as it was unjustified and without merit.
  • We requested them to drop the matter because no copyright infringement was made against Zygor Guides LLC and we had already complied by removing traces of TourGuide from our server.

5. On 12th Mar 2010 Zygor’s Lawyer replied with additional demands instead.

  • Zygor’s lawyer finally provided proof of contract agreement between Zygor and Tekkub.
  • Zygor demanded that I agree to permanently cease and desist from reproducing, distributing, displaying and selling the TourGuide software or anything substantially similar to it. (meaning I must agree to never make / sell / give away any in-game leveling guide in any form ever again)
  • Zygor would reconsider the payment of $75,000 if we provided them with our full sales stats.
  • Zygor is open to alternative settlement if I contact him directly via email, if we don’t contact them to settle then they expect a check of $75,000 by 31 March 2010.

6. We sent the follow up letter on 25th Mar 2010, stating further evidence that we were within our rights to distribute TourGuide prior 18th Feb 2010.

Final Comments on Zygor

From the information I have,  Zygor obtain the rights to tourguide in 18th  December  (incorrectly stated as November in the screen shot below) and intentionally not notify ultimatewowguide.com or anybody else.  So they can wait for 2 months to gain some sort of legal grounds for suing ultimatewowguide.com  and maybe others  for 2 months worth of loss of income (refer to screenshot below)

Our current views remains that Zygor purpose of acquiring TourGuide is an intentional attempt to harm our Business and our affiliates incomes to force them to switch. Also an attempt to obtain $75,000 from ultimatewowguide.com

I would like to comment futher however I prefer to stick to facts that I can back up with evidence.  The purpose of this post for you to know the facts and hopefully regain your confidence with ultimatewowguide.com

I look forward to continue developing our own guides and addon and simply minding our own business.

– Dugi

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Leave A Reply (58 comments So Far)

  1. k-rock  3 months ago

    thank you very much for taking the time to thoroughly with FACTS, screenshots. You provide customers of wow guide addons the facts and screenshots explaining what was going on from 2010 forward RE these great guide addons. I really enjoyed the zygor interface around 2011 better than wowpro. I thought it was craptastic when I saw you have to pay zygor to use the same info in a diff interface but dugi was more open and easy to access and not shady seeming.

    Reply

  2. fatboymicrochip  10 months ago

    To be absolutely honest, and to necro the kak out of this, this has been the ultimate decider between Zygor and Dugi for me. I’ve not used the guides I already have from Dugi for some time now but am starting a new set of alts. Some of my guildies use Zygor and some Dugi and it got me wondering which to use. I’ve done my homework and was going with Dugi’s subscription service again and saw this in my search results too so gave it a read. LOOOOOL! Not a chance I’m giving Zygor any of my cash, not after seeing the dodgy side of how they do business. And I’ll be making sure any Zygor fans in my circle are informed as well, just to make sure they’re informed as to where their monies are going.

    Dugi can expect a new monthly sub tonight as soon as I’m home from work. Dugi’s FTW!

    Reply

  3. Cevandri  4 years ago

    Was going to pickup a leveling guide. and going to take yours. was going with zygors but their prices is way 2 much for ally/horde ($60 usd) while u have a monthly subscription WHICH i was thinking of asking zygor if they had. after reading up comparison, urs seem the choice to pick. I tried their trial and using a guide seems awesome but they dont have good Multiboxing Feature (RAF) so Your Hard Leveling Guide would probably be awesome! You got yourself an customer. AT LEAST for minium of 1 month =)

    Reply

  4. Aleisha  4 years ago

    I enjoy what you guys are up too. This kind of clever work and coverage! Keep up the great works guys I’ve you guys to my personal blogroll.

    Reply

  5. SynErr  7 years ago

    I pirate Zygor’s guides, so they aren’t getting any money from me.

    Reply

    Tired Reply:

    @SynErr, Just to make sure I understand, because Dugi is right your commiting a crime?

    Reply

  6. Dugi (not copied, I've been using that name for 3-4 years xD)  8 years ago

    Hey, I don’t know if this is a little late. But I’m with you all the way, I haven’t actually used any of your guides. But from what I’ve heard, yours is definitely better. I’ve tried Zygors, just got the Joana’s one and copied and put an automatic feature in it… I’ll be with you all the way. Zygor just saw your guide and decided to get rights from Tekkub and then get you out of it to remove the competition.

    Reply

    DugisGuide Reply:

    Its never too late 🙂 , thank you for your support.

    Reply

  7. Souljacker  8 years ago

    After doing lengthy internet research (and using Jame’s guides for a long time), I finally decided on purchasing the packages offered here.

    I think Jame is fantastic and his guides on WoW-Pro are great. I also think that if those folks chose a more lucrative business model, they could spend more time producing a product that is more polished. I wanted such a product and so my research led me to two major guide distributors: Dugi and Zygor.

    I ended up choosing Dugi for reasons that weren’t limited to just the quality of the guides – because in all honesty the reviews on both are stellar. The dealbreaker for me was this issue and Zygor’s strongarm tactics. He didn’t have to make threats, and he didn’t have to be shady about the transaction for Tour Guide.

    He was, and he lost at least one potential customer because of it. I’ll stick with the Dugi product.

    I just hope it was worth it for Zygor.

    Reply

  8. andy  9 years ago

    me on the contrary love the fact that dugi showed us this. why? mostly because truth gets to the surface sooner or later, but the way as it is presented can totally change things. dugi’s just showing provable facts to prove himself honest and clean. u have all my support and sadly zygor has lost all my respect… as a worker, gamer, human being and everything else in the world. i wouldn’t definitely speak or answer posts any further if i were u. but i think this info was absolutely needed to clear things up now and in the future for your costumers and zygor’s costumers. and also, and for other posters: i guess if u have purchased dugi’s guides u have the right to now… and also have the right to not read what dugi says.

    i really can’t believe what this guy did…the amazing thing is that i was considering to purchase his guides for me and my bf between last week and this week, but now they won’t receive any scent from me, my bf, friends or guildies… he totally totally lost my respect and i thank u for posting this info. dirty competition’s freaking awful.

    Reply

  9. Raventiger  9 years ago

    Dugi,

    Thank you for this update. It is my sincere hope that you haven’t put your case at risk for providing it though. As always, I wish you all the very best in this.

    Reply

  10. Streen  9 years ago

    It seems to me that the assumption that Zygor was intentionally waiting is based on good logic. From the looks of that last letter from Zygor, it seems to me he is trying very hard to hurt your business. Were I you I’d file a counter-suit on the grounds of erroneous libel. The fact that they are wanting to settle out of court shows just how weak their case really is.
    Very interesting how he mentions that irregardless of the fact that his guides are selling more than yours are, you owe him.

    Reply

  11. Marcin  9 years ago

    Hey Dugi, keep your head up. Those idiots at zygor are just jealous of our success. Your customer support is second to none. I have been using your guide for about 2 years now and I couldn’t be happier especially now with the new patch that you guys released, totally awesome. Keep up the good work and in the end you’ll come out laughing. Good guys don’t always finish last.

    Reply

  12. delaxes  9 years ago

    i totally agree with you here, zygor’s guide doesn’t have the right to sew you for anything.

    Reply

  13. Tony Heath  9 years ago

    Dugi,

    I don’t think they have any grounds to sue you, to put it in the Language of my youth, tell John Cook to “f**k off.”

    I think Zygor guides have cut their own throat. They have misjudged how people will react to their tactics. Most people will not go along with a company who uses such underhand methods. If they are willing to do that to you, then what chance do we, as customers, have of getting any kind of fair play from them. The answer is nil.

    I would say everyone, don’t deal with them, let them go bust and good riddance.

    Tony

    Reply

  14. Marc  9 years ago

    Dugi,
    I support you in this, not because I like your guide, I have issues with it, but because I dislike competition via law suits. It seems obvious that Zygor wants to sell his system over yours, natural and nothing wrong with that. However, instead of making his better than yours, he seems to resort to threats and scare tactics like the old gangs that would gain by getting rid of the competition. Hardly fair.

    BTW, one of the issues I had when I tried the trial version of your guide is that it did not seem to take the character’s actual level in consideration. I remember a number of times going to the NPC I was directed too and seeing a white Exclamation point rather than yellow. Or, in some cases, no exclamation point at all. Not knowing why frustrated me.

    Reply

  15. Satsujin  9 years ago

    Less QQ more PEW PEW! You were the first guide ever I bought back in ’07 when there was no ingame leveling just pages upon pages of looking between web browser and wow which got me to 70 fast, therefore I didn’t need to look anywhere else for leveling guides. Keep your **** straight and keep updating the guide man; you’re doing a lot of people a favor by saving time, money, and the hassles of this game. If you get sued and your site closes down…I’ll have to quit wow because I’m not looking for any other guides to waste my time on or more of my life, wow takes that up as it is. In the word’s of Rob Schneider, “You can do it!”

    Reply

  16. Rob  9 years ago

    I am a Ultimate Wow Guide owner and a Zygor guides owner as well. The simple fact that Dugi’s guide is so much more helpful than Zygor’s is not why I am writing this. I am outraged that Zygor can make such threats and demands when this whole issue could’ve been avoided, had they just provided information in a timely fashion. This is in no way Dugi’s fault nor should he be penalized for selling Tourguide up to the point that Zygor gave him written documentation proving their exclusive rights to Tourguide. I will continue to be an Ultimate Wow Guide supporter and I hope for the best.

    Reply

  17. Manon  9 years ago

    Dirty tactics from Zygor, they obviously have been planning this and caught you off guard. I have no idea how international law works in this matter, I do know the US system is all about counter sues. They try to sue you for every hole in the wall, you counter sue and that’s where there is negotiating… and the ball starts rolling.

    That’s not how it works here in Europe, though it is starting to look like it… if you ignore this and don’t let your lawyer or other legal representative take action in your behalf, in this country they could press it to a claim (court) where you’d loose because not responding means agreeing with the charge!

    I think it’s utterly ridiculous they are trying to get money from you, they are trying to get you out of business… it’s obvious in their actions that they could not live up to your quality therefore they had to stoop low and buy it away from you. When it came apparent this wouldn’t stop you they are trying to grasp at all other means possible.

    Until this thing is over be sure to have everything proof read by your lawyer before posting it and possibly counter sueing, because you should’ve been given notice in writing by Tekkub prior to him selling it to Zygor and not way after (absolutely sounds like they planned this just so they could claim), and does this mean anyone using the free source code can be sued too? or anyone who has used it after the purchase by Zygor?

    It’s sad to see Zygor trying to weasel their way into making a better guide then they had before over the back of the one already being the better one…. and who is still standing after this backhanded action and has now improved himself, being Dugi!! So to me it’s obvious who to vote for!

    It’s also very sad that someone like Tekkub would turn out to be such a backstabber, he could’ve written a new code for Zygor and left the source code as is, since it was also freely available… but it’s apparent Zygor can’t live up to any competition so in return they just try to take the competition down with nasty tactics instead of improving themselves.

    Besides all that monopolizing a market is against the law too!

    Reply

  18. Frederick Blundell  9 years ago

    Dear Dugi. Please do not let this misguided jerk (Zygor) deprive me of your wonderful guide. Zygor is not only attacking you, but he is attacking me and all those who have a right to choose freely. I have Zygor’s guide and it sucks. I would have replaced it with yours long ago but I have no credit cards and therefore no means of paying for it. I obtained Zygor’s guide from ebay using Paypal. I have seen your guide in action on other computers, and as soon as I can negotiate the use of somebody’s card I will purchase it. I just cant understand why this immature dope doesn.t spend his time and money on improving his own guide. I guess its because he doesn.t have the talent.

    Reply

  19. angel  9 years ago

    hi Dugi i love ur guids they help me out a lot they save me alot of time 🙂 ur guides are kick ass. i tell all my friends to get ur guide`s. good luck on the fight hope the best

    Reply

  20. jt  9 years ago

    I believe that if, at any time, Tekkub intimated in any way that you could use his code, whether it was thru formal contract or an informal ‘hey if you want’ email, … from that point on, unless he formally requires you to stop using it, that you are free to continue to do so. At such time as Zygor gained ownership of said code, it would be his responsibility to use a discover process, similar to when you search for liens on a home prior to buying it, to make sure no one had been given prior permission to use it. Tekkor should have made Zygor aware of anyone commercially using his code, and Zygor should have made a formal request of you Dugi, to stop using the code, long before he took legal action against you. Lawyers put their pants on one leg at a time like anyone, and there is a reason everyone tells lawyer jokes. So just because he is using an attorney doesn’t mean he is within his rights. That IS a joke! And, he can’t specify an amount to pay, or ‘he’ll take you to court’. He probably screwed himself right there. And he certainly can’t prevent you from creating addons for a game he doesn’t own. Take a deep breath and relax. Just tell him you’ll ‘see him in court’. It will go your way. I guarantee it.

    Reply

  21. soks  9 years ago

    Blizzard’s add-on policy supercedes any other licensing in this situation. You cannot make money off an Add-On, period.

    With that in mind, Zygor doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

    Reply

  22. Frungi  9 years ago

    The only thing I can see happening if this goes to court is Zygor being ordered to stop selling his addon in violation of Blizzard’s TOS. His demands are laughable, especially the lost sales. I don’t think he has a legal leg to stand on, since you had Tekkub’s permission. And I believe the only part of the addon that you actually sold, and wasn’t in the freely available trial version, was your own guide files.

    Reply

  23. Donald  9 years ago

    I’ll never buy anything from Zygor or anyone that I know does business with him. This is exactly the type of underhanded business tactics that has driven the US and other free countries to their knees in the worst economic mess since the Great Depression of the 1930’s. In a word, greed. Well, I’ll personally tell anyone I know on WoW about this. Word of mouth is a powerful advertisement.

    By the way – V4 is a WoW! Great going there! I liked the other version a lot – but this is even better!

    Reply

  24. Biggfootdad  9 years ago

    Ignore Zygor! He is a spineless twit that wants to drive all competition into the ground, and he sees your guide as a direct threat! From my point of view, it makes your product much more appealing then his. If his was the superior guide, why all the drama and legal BS?

    His motives are very clear; Get you out the picture to increase the sales of his own guide. Too bad that he can’t stand on his own merit, lol.

    Anyway, let your lawyer do what they do best. That’s what you pay them for. Keep up the good work.

    Reply

  25. Lake  9 years ago

    Really it is sad that a person such as Dugi who offers a good product at a fair price, and as far as i can see always acted in good faith, gets threatened while real internet scumbags hide behind eastern European or Chinese firewalls and say FU to anyone who has a problem with it.

    I guess that is what the world is coming to. The folks trying to do the right thing get slammed by people like Zygor who obviously focus more on lawyers than good products. I always heard in grade school that it is better to build yourself up than tear the other guy down but i guess Zygor didn’t get that lesson. I mean he already had an add-on…clearly he bought this one solely to attack his competition.

    The real clown in this deal is tekkub. He goes from buddy-buddy-i’m just writing free software for the fans to amateur lawyer pretty quick. Writes an e-mail to Dugi saying do what you want with my open source code and now says well that’s not what i meant. Total sellout.

    Reply

  26. Julie  9 years ago

    It’s a sad that things have come down to this. I personally thought there were things to recommend about both your and Zygor’s guids. I myself used both for different reasons. I will no longer be using Zygor for anything anymore though. I understand competition, but fight it honestly. not using underhanded tactics. That is the problem with the world today though, too few know what honor is anymore.
    Jewls

    Reply

  27. Johnw  9 years ago

    Well…..
    Lawyers can claim the moon…
    My advise from having gone through one of these lawsuits is
    to turtle up. No See…No Speak…No Write…No Response..
    No Answers….in other words your a brick wall. The only action you should take is IF you are served then take it to
    a lawyer who is versed in this kind of law. (By served I mean
    when a prosess server hands you an envelope.) Refuse to accept any other form of communication…

    Do NOT try and handle it yourself. Your Lawyer will know how to respond to the forms the process server hands you.

    From what you have released it does look like your in the clear up till you were notified of infringement but that gets wrangled by the lawyers through depositions.

    The main thing is IF YOU ARE SERVED DON’T TRY TO HANDLE
    IT YOURSELF. And for god sake don’t respond to ANYTHING.
    The ONLY communication should be through your attorney PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!

    Good Luck…..and Shut up…Your a brick in the wall 🙂

    Reply

  28. Eric  9 years ago

    Support all the way from me, your guide is the best guide for the price and your customer support has been great. I agree with many that this sounds like extortion to me and be sure to bring legal representatives if this does go to court. My father works in international patent law and after reading both sides, I do not believe their case will hold any weight in court. Either way be prepared for the worst and hope for the best. Zygor is what me and my friends in the workforce call a scumbag and it sure as hell sounds like scumbag scare tactics to me. I am going to do some research on my end and if I or my father can find anything I will be sure to let you know via email. If as I believe it is true and you are truly in the right, then Zygor is bitter that his business is poorly outfitted and run and simply wants to bring you down to their level. Do not send them your business stats without first consulting well respected legal representation as that is them simply trying to find obscure stats to twist and take out of context. Like I said scumbags. You have my full support and I can give my word in court if your lawyers could use a written testimony. They can contact me via email.

    With love from the USA
    Eric

    Reply

    DugisGuide Reply:

    I would appreciate that.

    Reply

  29. Lance  9 years ago

    It’s Zygor that is beating a dead horse. Zygor bought the rights to software published in open source! Any future, modified versions are protected, but the original, open source version is still freely usable to anyone retaining a copy. The only reason to pursue this is to strong-arm the competition!

    Take into account the misinformation and confusion, contradictory e-mails and communications, monetary donations for open source development, and late notification and Zygor does not have a case! Put Tekkub on the stand and watch him squirm as he tries to explain the various communications between parties – a good lawyer will eat him for lunch and use his bones for a toothpick.

    Zygor is hoping the competition will lay down under the pressure and slowly disappear. Quit letting the corporate gorilla push you around and bite back! Show some teeth!! Never pay (admission) and do have your lawyer vigorously return fire. Slap a counter suit on them so fast their heads will spin! If they want to take the complaint to court, tell them Hell yes and bring it on!

    Sit back and continue development on your product.

    Reply

    Lance Reply:

    I like the “turtle up” comment below. Probably a lot better advice. 🙂

    Reply

  30. Lee  9 years ago

    Dugi,

    Unleash the hounds of hell. I do not know if you have considered a counter-suit, I am not a lawyer, I just play one in WoW.

    I enjoy your guides, I support your guides, I am a customer of Joanne (way back when 60 was the cap). I am a supporter of WoW-Pro as well.

    I believe your opinion of Zygors intentions is accurate.

    Keep fighting the good fight.

    -Lee

    Reply

  31. Ri chard  9 years ago

    Hello Dugi,

    I bought your Ultimate WoW Guide as soon as you released it, because it worked so well with WoW and my other UI mods. I was amongst the first few hundred to purchase the original. and I have loved it ever since. I have now finished the upgrade to the new V4 guide, and although some of it does “feel” the same as the original it is clearly a different guide altogether. I say BRAVO to you and your development team for all the the hundreds of hours you have put into this to make it the BEST guide on the market period. I looked at a trial version of Zygor’s guide which I immediately saw was far below par with your guide. I promplty deleted it and continued to hapoly use “Dugi’s Guide” (affectionately) I want to add here that even before you droped the original “Tourguide” OPEN SOURCE code AFTER you were notified that someone had purchased the rights to it (how is that possible?) Dugi’s Guide was the better guide. personally I think Zygor should pit his guide to yours and see what happens….oh wait he already knows….it is an inferior product and can’t hold a candle you yours. That is why is is trying to sue you is simply because he and his team can’t hold a candle to what you and your team have produced. I am now as from the beginning a Staunch supporter and promoter of your guide. All you have to do is ask my Guild mates lol. they are all amazed at my leveling speed and my “magical” ability to make gold lol. I keep telling them to buy your guide and then they can be “magical” too. Finally….Zygor. stop sniveling and whining step up to the plate and develop your own guide that workes as well as Dugi’s. I respectfully submit that you can not and that is why you are trying to “STEAL” Dugi’s Guide. My father always used to tell me “Put up or shut up” never in my entire life have those sords souned so sweet. Keep up the good work Dugi and team and I will be standing here cheering you on all the way to victory.

    Respectfully
    Richard Manning aka
    Amarad

    Reply

  32. Ryan A.  9 years ago

    And yeah that was a bit harsh. Depending on the license that was released they may have no ground. There are only a few open source licenses that cannot be retroactively revoked. So hopefully you’ll be OK.

    Take some heart that a company that owned UNIX tried to sue every LINUX user on the planet in a similar kind of fashion to what is happening to you. They lost remarkably and have been shunned ever since:

    Reply

    edward Reply:

    Dugi,

    I am going to agree with Ryan on this one. He was a bit harsh, but in reality, Miranda applies. American Supreme court case that basically says that anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.

    Once this gets settled, send us all a summary. Lawyers are good at defending you, and the more words you publish, the more words they have to defend.

    The best thing you can do to protect yourself (And more importantly your family) is to stop speaking about the matter until it is settled. It doesn’t matter that you and your lawyer think you are right unless and until a judge/jury agrees with you.

    Love your guide, keep up the good work, just keep your head down.

    V/R

    Reply

  33. Ryan A.  9 years ago

    What license a piece of software is released as depends on two things:

    a) whether a license was specified
    or
    b) if nothing was specified, then it would be under the implicit copyright laws of the authors country (I think)

    Straight off, if no license was specified then the software authors is massively amateur. In Australia, released work with no license retains copyright of the author I believe, if that’s the case they can withdraw the copyright.

    So you do need to figure this crap out by seeing a lawyer.

    If Zygor is threatening you directly (i.e. not through a legal counsel) then he’s probably full of ****. If he has lawyers contacting you, you better get a laywer yourself. Also, posting **** like this isn’t productive if you actually go to court.

    If he is committed to taking you to court it will cost him a bucketload of money. So it wont happen unless they’re either complete idiots with lots of money or actually right.

    All this stinks of is huge incompetence of all involved, and it speaks hugely of the unprofessional nature of the wow guide businesses.

    I bought guides from you Dugi and all I get from you since is bull**** emails about your idiot problems. Go and spend some real money on lawyers and sort this out, and stop posting about it publically, coz it’ll come back and bite you in the arse.

    Good luck.

    Reply

    DugisGuide Reply:

    we have already have good lawyer representing us and we’re not afraid to speak out.

    Reply

  34. knighteternal  9 years ago

    Just on a side note, Dugi, maybe you might want to also look at designing your own Talent Guide Add-on as Talented could be the next add-on the Zygor targets for purchase to try and sabotage your business. Okay I said I wasn’t going to say anything negative about him, but I just couldn’t resist.

    Reply

  35. ian  9 years ago

    Hi Dugi, you keep at it mate, as an affiliate of your site and zygors, i have dropped my zygor promotion from this point onwards, as a sign of my disgust at their actions.
    We should all be helping each other in this business and not trying to compete via dirty tricks.

    All the best
    Ian

    Reply

  36. knighteternal  9 years ago

    I don’t want to say anything bad about Zygor, as I don’t want to fuel the flame war.

    I will say, I purchased his guides back when Wrath of the Lich King came out, didn’t like them, and got a refund.

    I knew full well for a long time that Dugi’s Viewer was a modified version of the freeware add-on TourGuide, and yet had no problems purchasing his guides.

    I personally can not understand how Zygor can claim for lost income from December 2009 when TourGuide was still available on GitHub and WoWInterface.com until the statement was made that it had been sold. He can no claim that Dugi’s Guides specifically took away his income when people were downloading it for free from various other sites.

    Anyways, just my 2 cents worth. Keep up with the good work on the new add-on, it looks to be going well so far.

    Reply

    Evan Reply:

    Ya, doesn’t it have to be public knowledge to be able to file a lawsuit. The dates that zygor is accusing you of infringement on had absolutely NO publication of the fact that he had bought out TourGuide. My friends and I back you and think that zygor’s lawsuit won’t be able to hold up in Court.
    Thanks for all the great guides Dugi 😀

    Reply

  37. Dean  9 years ago

    Dugi,

    I’m behind you all the way!!!!!!!! Your guides are fantastic, your service is second to none, and reading both sides of this argument, you come across as the most professional in your responses and your attempts to do the right thing. At least you haven’t been slinging mud like the other guy has. Good luck mate and I hope that rat gets what he deserves in the end

    Reply

  38. Beth  9 years ago

    I will keep my comments though verbose to the point. I have owned several guides out there, though none of them really helped unless I wanted to roll a fresh toon, as none keep track of quest completed on already leveling toons.

    But honestly, Tekkubs software was publicly available as open source as Dugi mentioned above. How does one legally buy the rights to an open source program to begin with? Is that idea even legally supported.

    The reason I say this is , for example, anyone can put together and sell a distribution of Linux. If I go to the source site and download the kernal code, compile my own version and sell it, The author has have no ground to sue me.

    But can Linus Torvalds now sell the rights to one person and allow that purchaser to sue all distributors of Linux.
    No because the kernal WAS open source, therefore it cannot have its rights sold, unless a newer version is created for the purchaser and they recieve exclusive rights to THAT program version and subsequent ones thereafter.

    The only way ( in the U.S.) that Zygor would have any legal grounds is only if Tekkub stopped developing the code, Removed all new versions of the code from the open source site. Then sold a new revised code specifically to the zygor.

    They could contractually own the rights to that revised copy and all further editions but the original addon’s code, before the exclusive version would still be legal to use due to the open source it was at the time.
    IE: Dugi as long as you were using a copy of tourguide from before it was pulled from open source, and had been revised as a straight for sale commercially licensed , neither party has a legal leg to stand on as far as a lawsuit.
    If you pulled the hypothetical revised addon out of Zygors guide and then put it in yours.. that would legal grounds to sue.
    Also is Zygor based in New Zealand?
    Does his legal actions even effect you under your nations laws?

    To sum up my opinion and the 2 cents it’s worth..
    Zygor is an jerk. He will never see a single cent from me or my guildies ever again( guild of 250 members).
    And it’s quite possible seeing as there was no international copywrite on the Tourguide, being open source, at the time you produced your guide, and seeing as how you are a New Zealander, and his claims may not even be legal in your homeland, I think he has no case at all.
    good luck Dugi..
    oh and by the way your guides were always better than zygors rickety buggy crap.At least your co-ordinates were correct and not 200 yards off in some cases..

    Beth

    Reply

    DugisGuide Reply:

    well with enough money anything is possible, and we know roughly how much Zygor is worth (a lot more that us thats for sure) so we don’t take their threat lightly.

    Reply

  39. Magneto  9 years ago

    Typical Lawyer stuf here, scaring tactics and attempts to make you admit something. Suppose you would pay this ‘offer’ of $75.000, you would legally weaken your position because the Zygor lawyers would use this as an indirect confession/admittance of an infringement on Zygor’s ‘rights’.
    Furthermore, it’s not totally legal for Zygor’s lawyers to make you such an offer because it sounds a lot like extortion. Your lawyer could file a complaint with the authorities against Zygor for this. Maybe something worth considering when they keep pushing like this.

    Anyway. I love the work you’ve done so far and in the past. You have a large support base here so don’t give up.
    Greets from Europe

    Reply

  40. Micheal  9 years ago

    Too many lawyers in this world. We seriously need to get rid of them all…

    Reply

  41. Jack  9 years ago

    Look like Zygor really is targeting you! But I got to say that the new addon you release a few days ago looks and act a lot like the old one… But you are in your good right here.

    All this happening like you did piss Zygor off with fighting him back with his own marketing tactics! Talking About the video and some compare data on your site.

    Zygor trying to fight you on both fronts shutting down your site when he just happen to release 2 new products that you offer for years…. you known what maybe its time too counter sue…. he in one way is stealing your ideas…

    Reply

    Evan Reply:

    Ya, my friend has been keeping me up to date on the devious gnome’s (Zygor’s) actions. and he just released a “NEW” dailies and events guide and also a “NEW” gold making guide too. You should counter-sue because he is stealing your guides/ideas. In my own logic you are in the right and the gnome is a little bugger that needs to just shut up. And my friend that was using zygo’s guides has switched over. He says yours are FAR better in comparison. And I also think yours are the best.

    Reply

  42. Kim  9 years ago

    I have seen alot of this lawyer BS and it’s about scaring people to obey. Just cut all lines and contact with such people. You did right about stopping all links and stopping selling what zygor bought. They can’t ask for more. As far goes about the sevice you and friends are making, nobody else can reach that level, so continue on that.

    Reply

  43. James  9 years ago

    Before I started buying ur guides, I was also a zygor customer. It disgusts me that they are trying to kock you out of buisness. I agree that this is complete bs. Out of all the companies I have bought wow guides from, you guys are the only ones to show exceptional customer service. You guys are the best that are out there and zygor should be the ones to go out of buisness. You got my support all the way. Keep your head up and you’ll get through this.

    Reply

  44. Eric  9 years ago

    Dugi,

    I have been a user of your guides for over a year, during that time you have provided outstanding support if I ever had a question. I will continue to use your guide, and I highly recommend it to my friends.

    This lawsuit is just another way for those on the bottom attempt to bring down the competition. You have my full support.

    Reply

  45. Lisa  9 years ago

    I purchased your full package yesterday and that was after being quite impressed with Zygors guides and other stuff..

    The reason I purchased yours instead was because I want no part of a person or company who are employing what I consider dirty tactics which is what I believe zygor is doing.

    Most players like me just want to play the game and have fun..not get involved in stupid games like Zygor is playing.

    Keep your head up.

    Reply

  46. Dave  9 years ago

    I’m a Zygor guide owner and ashamed to be one. I’m totally tired of Zygor’s attempts to squash the competition. I’m done with Zygor and all that junk they’re pulling! Zygor is not getting another F-ING penny from me.

    Reply

  47. Brandon  9 years ago

    Zygor can go to hell for all i care.. Extortion is BS …
    and just because Zygor has been on the low end of sales with leveling guides in he last few years doesn’t mean that because he finds a way to buy rights and wait until the opportune time to cash in on some type of sales loss… idk.. he jst has NO RIGHT

    Reply

  48. anonymous  9 years ago

    Dugi, the fact that Zygor is offering you 75 large to drop lawsuit is extortion. You had no knowledge of the acquistion from either party in written or verbal. They have no case against you.

    Reply